Comments on: Kindle Spying http://philosecurity.org/2009/07/08/kindle-spying Tue, 09 Mar 2010 23:41:40 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: lori http://philosecurity.org/2009/07/08/kindle-spying/comment-page-1#comment-4960 lori Fri, 31 Jul 2009 02:38:00 +0000 http://philosecurity.org/?p=1920#comment-4960 I enjoy the syncing feature. Don't like technology, read paper books, period. I enjoy the syncing feature. Don’t like technology, read paper books, period.

]]> By: Philip Ham http://philosecurity.org/2009/07/08/kindle-spying/comment-page-1#comment-4918 Philip Ham Thu, 16 Jul 2009 02:48:01 +0000 http://philosecurity.org/?p=1920#comment-4918 For starters, the library where I check out books, certainly has a list of books that I have checked out. Whether I read them or not is beside the point. Perhaps I check out a book detailing an airplane hijacking technique. Some time later I buy a ticket to fly to Atlanta. Does TSA now have my name and wonder if I was just reading for entertainment or information? Keep your Kindle. I still like holding the book in my lap. For starters, the library where I check out books, certainly has a list of books that I have checked out. Whether I read them or not is beside the point. Perhaps I check out a book detailing an airplane hijacking technique. Some time later I buy a ticket to fly to Atlanta. Does TSA now have my name and wonder if I was just reading for entertainment or information? Keep your Kindle. I still like holding the book in my lap.

]]> By: Noah http://philosecurity.org/2009/07/08/kindle-spying/comment-page-1#comment-4910 Noah Mon, 13 Jul 2009 03:35:44 +0000 http://philosecurity.org/?p=1920#comment-4910 How about a less extreme example, You are sitting in a book-store reading a book. Each book you buy is recorded by the store. Each page you turn is recorded by the in-store CCTV. So what? Show me a real-life example where knowing the seller (not some 'anonymous stranger' ) knowing what page you are up to can be used against you. Sure, what books you read could be used against you, but if you just bought the book from me, maybe I have an idea what you read? How about a less extreme example,

You are sitting in a book-store reading a book. Each book you buy is recorded by the store.

Each page you turn is recorded by the in-store CCTV.

So what?

Show me a real-life example where knowing the seller (not some ‘anonymous stranger’ ) knowing what page you are up to can be used against you. Sure, what books you read could be used against you, but if you just bought the book from me, maybe I have an idea what you read?

]]> By: derekpm http://philosecurity.org/2009/07/08/kindle-spying/comment-page-1#comment-4907 derekpm Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:55:46 +0000 http://philosecurity.org/?p=1920#comment-4907 Rather interesting. Has few times re-read for this purpose to remember. Thanks for interesting article. Waiting for trackback Rather interesting. Has few times re-read for this purpose to remember. Thanks for interesting article. Waiting for trackback

]]> By: Jonathan Ham http://philosecurity.org/2009/07/08/kindle-spying/comment-page-1#comment-4906 Jonathan Ham Sun, 12 Jul 2009 19:30:38 +0000 http://philosecurity.org/?p=1920#comment-4906 Oh, and I'm perfectly capable of remembering what page I'm on in any book I'm reading, all by myself (I'm a Big Boy Now). /jonathan Oh, and I’m perfectly capable of remembering what page I’m on in any book I’m reading, all by myself (I’m a Big Boy Now).

/jonathan

]]> By: Jonathan Ham http://philosecurity.org/2009/07/08/kindle-spying/comment-page-1#comment-4905 Jonathan Ham Sun, 12 Jul 2009 19:29:25 +0000 http://philosecurity.org/?p=1920#comment-4905 Um, Noah: Let's put on our Thinking Caps, shall we? If Amazon has your bookmark, they know not only what you read, and where you left off, they can track your reading habits PAGE by PAGE, minute by minute, day by day. They know *when* you read what you read. They know what sections you skip, and which sections you read twice. How comfortable would you be if some anonymous stranger was physically standing in your living room, watching over your shoulder, observing you and taking notes as you spent your evening reading a book? Or more precisely, hanging around your books, waiting for you to pick one up, in order to record your reading behaviors? It is exactly no different. Personally I'd be creeped out at a minimum. More than likely I'd ask the stranger to leave, and call the police if he refused. I don't own a kindle, and won't be getting one. There are enough strangers recording my behaviors already. /jonathan Um, Noah: Let’s put on our Thinking Caps, shall we?

If Amazon has your bookmark, they know not only what you read, and where you left off, they can track your reading habits PAGE by PAGE, minute by minute, day by day. They know *when* you read what you read. They know what sections you skip, and which sections you read twice.

How comfortable would you be if some anonymous stranger was physically standing in your living room, watching over your shoulder, observing you and taking notes as you spent your evening reading a book? Or more precisely, hanging around your books, waiting for you to pick one up, in order to record your reading behaviors?

It is exactly no different. Personally I’d be creeped out at a minimum. More than likely I’d ask the stranger to leave, and call the police if he refused. I don’t own a kindle, and won’t be getting one. There are enough strangers recording my behaviors already.

/jonathan

]]> By: Noah http://philosecurity.org/2009/07/08/kindle-spying/comment-page-1#comment-4904 Noah Sun, 12 Jul 2009 02:39:08 +0000 http://philosecurity.org/?p=1920#comment-4904 Does anyone else think this is taking paranoia a little too far? As security professionals we are trained to see any opportunity for privacy loss, but now we are talking about something so commonplace, the humble bookmark, as if it is a loss to our freedoms. Quite frankly I applaud Amazon for having this feature, so you don't lose the page.. and I'm still waiting for an example where reading positions of a particular book, or a book mark, is used on court. I'm sure the presence of certain books in a personal library can be used, but a book mark? seriously? Does anyone else think this is taking paranoia a little too far? As security professionals we are trained to see any opportunity for privacy loss, but now we are talking about something so commonplace, the humble bookmark, as if it is a loss to our freedoms.

Quite frankly I applaud Amazon for having this feature, so you don’t lose the page.. and I’m still waiting for an example where reading positions of a particular book, or a book mark, is used on court. I’m sure the presence of certain books in a personal library can be used, but a book mark? seriously?

]]> By: Joshua Wright http://philosecurity.org/2009/07/08/kindle-spying/comment-page-1#comment-4903 Joshua Wright Sat, 11 Jul 2009 23:53:47 +0000 http://philosecurity.org/?p=1920#comment-4903 I'm a big privacy advocate, and my primary concern is how Amazon is going to profit from my use of my Kindles. I realize this is a useful feature for people with multiple e-readers, but it's not clear to me what Amazon's policy is on the use of the reading behavior of their customers. I've posted some additional thoughts on <a href="http://www.willhackforsushi.com/" rel="nofollow">willhackforsushi.com</a> including a presentation I gave earlier this year about how <a href="http://www.willhackforsushi.com/presentations/Pervasive%20Wireless%20Threats%20-%20SANS2009.pdf" rel="nofollow">wireless use introduces new privacy threats</a>. -Josh I’m a big privacy advocate, and my primary concern is how Amazon is going to profit from my use of my Kindles. I realize this is a useful feature for people with multiple e-readers, but it’s not clear to me what Amazon’s policy is on the use of the reading behavior of their customers.

I’ve posted some additional thoughts on willhackforsushi.com including a presentation I gave earlier this year about how wireless use introduces new privacy threats.

-Josh

]]> By: Will Hack For SUSHI » Wireless Privacy Loss++; Amazon Kindle http://philosecurity.org/2009/07/08/kindle-spying/comment-page-1#comment-4902 Will Hack For SUSHI » Wireless Privacy Loss++; Amazon Kindle Sat, 11 Jul 2009 23:47:00 +0000 http://philosecurity.org/?p=1920#comment-4902 [...] Check out Sherri's post on this topic on philosecurity.com. [...] [...] Check out Sherri's post on this topic on philosecurity.com. [...]

]]> By: David Lang http://philosecurity.org/2009/07/08/kindle-spying/comment-page-1#comment-4900 David Lang Fri, 10 Jul 2009 17:21:33 +0000 http://philosecurity.org/?p=1920#comment-4900 this is an advertised feature of the kindle, when you have multiple kindles attached to one account you can not only share books between them, you can also share how far into the book you have gotten. there are conditions where this gets pushed up to the central servers without your attention (I think it's when you remove an item from the kindle), but there is also a menu entry to push this data up so that it's available to all other kindles. this is an advertised feature of the kindle, when you have multiple kindles attached to one account you can not only share books between them, you can also share how far into the book you have gotten.

there are conditions where this gets pushed up to the central servers without your attention (I think it’s when you remove an item from the kindle), but there is also a menu entry to push this data up so that it’s available to all other kindles.

]]> By: sherri http://philosecurity.org/2009/07/08/kindle-spying/comment-page-1#comment-4895 sherri Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:19:43 +0000 http://philosecurity.org/?p=1920#comment-4895 @mogradin: One difference is that you can't dragnet everybody's houses looking for particular books and bookmarks. Personally I'm not worried about subpoenas so much as that information getting sucked into some sort of Total-Information-Awareness-style project. It's only a matter of time. @mogradin: One difference is that you can’t dragnet everybody’s houses looking for particular books and bookmarks. Personally I’m not worried about subpoenas so much as that information getting sucked into some sort of Total-Information-Awareness-style project. It’s only a matter of time.

]]> By: mogradin http://philosecurity.org/2009/07/08/kindle-spying/comment-page-1#comment-4894 mogradin Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:05:54 +0000 http://philosecurity.org/?p=1920#comment-4894 @Nathan: As long as the information is obtained through a subpoena or legal search, how is it different than checking your house for meatspace books that have bookmarks in the chapter on "how to get away with stuff without getting caught"? @Nathan: As long as the information is obtained through a subpoena or legal search, how is it different than checking your house for meatspace books that have bookmarks in the chapter on “how to get away with stuff without getting caught”?

]]> By: LonerVamp http://philosecurity.org/2009/07/08/kindle-spying/comment-page-1#comment-4893 LonerVamp Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:51:27 +0000 http://philosecurity.org/?p=1920#comment-4893 The amount of marketing interest in our behaviors is staggering. All of what Josh explains is certainly feasible. And while it is not involving sensitive information, it does involve my ability to live without someone watching over my shoulder or essentially having a camera over me. The more plugged in (and more electronic/virtual) we become, the more easily we become monitored. Then again, someone could bring up web surfing and the various detailed logging that may accrue. Is it bad that you might see me refresh this page a few times to read follow-up comments? :) This sort of stuff is why, while I still use Google as my main search engine and email, I have zero loyalty or trust in them anymore. Mining this data and behavior is $$ and being public, they *will* capitalize any time they can get away with it. Same with Amazon or Apple or... The amount of marketing interest in our behaviors is staggering. All of what Josh explains is certainly feasible. And while it is not involving sensitive information, it does involve my ability to live without someone watching over my shoulder or essentially having a camera over me. The more plugged in (and more electronic/virtual) we become, the more easily we become monitored.

Then again, someone could bring up web surfing and the various detailed logging that may accrue. Is it bad that you might see me refresh this page a few times to read follow-up comments? :)

This sort of stuff is why, while I still use Google as my main search engine and email, I have zero loyalty or trust in them anymore. Mining this data and behavior is $$ and being public, they *will* capitalize any time they can get away with it. Same with Amazon or Apple or…

]]> By: Nathan http://philosecurity.org/2009/07/08/kindle-spying/comment-page-1#comment-4891 Nathan Thu, 09 Jul 2009 04:12:38 +0000 http://philosecurity.org/?p=1920#comment-4891 Another concern is the possibility of this information being subpoenaed and used against you in court. The court may find it interesting that the night of an alleged crime you were skimming through the chapter on "how to get away with stuff without getting caught." Another concern is the possibility of this information being subpoenaed and used against you in court. The court may find it interesting that the night of an alleged crime you were skimming through the chapter on “how to get away with stuff without getting caught.”

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