Doctors Require Photo ID for Treatment
May 28th, 2009 by sherri
Walking into the doctor’s office, I was surprised to see a new sign in front of the receptionist, which read:
“Red Flag Identity Theft Rule We are now required by law to ask for a Photo ID at the time of each visit. Please have your Photo ID ready for the receptionist to scan.”
As an avid bicyclist, I wasn’t carrying a driver’s license.
“I’m sorry, we’ll have to reschedule you,” said the receptionist. “We need to scan your ID before we can see you. It’s a new law.”
“No, I really don’t have one. I bicycle everywhere. I don’t even know where my old license is any more.”
She looked me in the eye and said, “Sorry. I suggest you get a photo ID. You need to have one to be seen.”
“What if I’m paying for my own visit, and not using health insurance?”
“We need to scan your ID and have it in your file or we can’t see you.”
“I don’t think it’s right to deny care to patients who don’t have a Photo ID,” I said.
“Well, I can talk to my supervisor,” she said. “But I think you’re going to have to reschedule.”
As I waited, I watched the receptionist take another patient’s driver’s license and walk off into a back room. Apparently, in order to comply with the “Red Flag Identity Theft Rule,” the doctor’s office now scans a copy of every patient’s driver’s license and stores it in their computer systems.
How secure are my doctor’s computer systems? Patients don’t have the right to know. Doctor’s offices, hospitals and even health insurance companies get infected with viruses, worms and spyware all the time. These are generally not reported as patient data breaches, because they are far too common.
Just in the past few weeks, there have been news reports of patient data thefts from UC Berkely Health Service, Virginia Prescription Monitoring Program and Memorial Medical Center. The vast majority of breaches never get reported or even detected, however, because tiny little health care clinics and hospitals all over the country have neither the resources nor the incentives to institute appropriate detection measures.
And now they want to store a high-resolution copy of my driver’s license on top of everything else? What is this “Red Flags Identity Theft Rule,” anyway?
The Red Flags Rules are a collection of new Federal Trade Commission regulations aimed at reducing the risk of identity theft. The American Medical Association and dozens of other medical societies “have protested the FTC’s decision to apply the Red Flags rule to medical practices and other health care providers.”
Why on earth does the Federal Trade Commission affect who my doctor treats?
According to the FTC, “Health care providers may be subject to the Rule if they are ‘creditors.’ Although you may not think of your practice as a ‘creditor’ in the traditional sense of a bank or mortgage company, the law defines ‘creditor’ to include any entity that regularly defers payments for goods or services or arranges for the extension of credit. For example, you are a creditor if you regularly bill patients after the completion of services, including for the remainder of medical fees not reimbursed by insurance.”
The FTC requires “each financial institution or creditor to develop and implement a written Identity Theft Prevention Program (Program) to detect, prevent, and mitigate identity theft in connection with the opening of certain accounts or certain existing accounts.” Although the Red Flags Rules do not explicitly require doctor’s offices to make copies of patient identification, they are often implemented this way.
Ironically, spreading more private information around– such as high-resolution copies of driver’s licenses- increases patients’ risk of identity theft. As a 2008 World Privacy Forum report explained:
“When patients are, for example, asked for a drivers’ license when checking in to hospitals for surgery, the license itself may be copied or scanned and added into the actual patient file. This can give hospital insiders with criminal tendencies access to a treasure trove of photographic, biometric, and other information that may have been unavailable to them before. The result can be more identity theft (medical and otherwise).
“…Just because customer identity proofing is commonplace in the financial sector does not mean that it has translated perfectly or even well to the health care sector. The two sectors have different regulatory requirements, approaches to access points, security, and information flows. Banks and health care providers also have different competencies, staffing capacities, training, and in many cases even procedures when it comes to reviewing and managing customer identification documents.”
Everyone should have access to medical care– not just people who have registered with the government and obtained a photo ID. Furthermore, patients should have the right to health care without being forced to give up control of our personal information. As a patient, I don’t really want a copy of my Photo ID stored on a crappy unpatched Windows box at my doctor’s office. Today’s patients do not even have the right to know how well doctor’s offices and hospitals are secured, even in the face of constant reports of medical data breaches. That’s sick.
| Sherri Davidoff |
| PGP-signed text: 2009-05-28 (current) |
So did they end up seeing you without a photo ID?
Hi Daniel,
After speaking to her supervisor, the receptionist informed me that the FTC had delayed the Red Flags enforcement date to August 1, 2009. She said that as a result, the doctor would see me “this time,” but after August 1, I would have to have a photo ID scanned into my file or I would not be seen.
Thanks for following up!
Sherri
No state law requires or allows photocopying of a driver’s license.
California DMV code, Section 14610 (a)(7) states it is unlawful for any person to photograph, duplicate or in any way reproduce any driver’s license or facsimile thereof in such a manner that it could be mistaken for a valid license, or to display or have in his or her possession any such photograph, or other reproduction, unless authorized by a provision of the vehicle code,” as reported and verified in The Press-Enterprise newspaper, Monday, July 14, 2008, by Armando Botello, DMV spokesman.
Botello cited another applicable law, although it does not pertain to photocopying a license. “It’s California Civil Code Section 1798.90.1,” Botello said. “It allows a business to swipe or scan the bar code of a driver’s license in order to collect personal information that may be required for reporting, investigating or preventing fraud, abuse or material misrepresentation.”
California DMV- Unlawful Use of License 14610. (a) It is unlawful for any person:
(1) To display or cause or permit to be displayed or have in his possession any canceled, revoked, suspended, fictitious, fraudulently altered, or fraudulently obtained driver’s license.
(2) To lend his driver’s license to any other person or knowingly permit the use thereof by another.
(3) To display or represent any driver’s license not issued to him as being his license.
(4) To fail or refuse to surrender to the department upon its lawful demand any driver’s license which has been suspended, revoked or canceled.
(5) To permit any unlawful use of a driver’s license issued to him.
(6) To do any act forbidden or fail to perform any act required by this division.
(7) To photograph, photostat, duplicate, or in any way reproduce any driver’s license or facsimile thereof in such a manner that it could be mistaken for a valid license, or to display or have in his possession any such photograph, photostat, duplicate, reproduction, or facsimile unless authorized by the provisions of this code.
(8) To alter any driver’s license in any manner not authorized by this code.
(b) For purposes of this section, “driver’s license” includes a temporary permit to operate a motor vehicle.
Amended Ch. 44, Stats. 1990. Effective January 1, 1991.
40000.1. Except as otherwise provided in this article, it is unlawful and constitutes an infraction for any person to violate, or fail to comply with any provision of this code, or any local ordinance adopted pursuant to this code.
40000.3. A violation expressly declared to be a felony, or a public offense which is punishable, in the discretion of the court, either as a felony or misdemeanor, or a willful violation of a court order which is punishable as contempt pursuant to subdivision (a) of Section 42003.
Hi Steve,
That’s a great point. You inspired me to search through the Montana vehicle code, where I found a relevant section (emphasis added):
” 61-5-309. Unlawful issuance of license or identification card. No person may create, publish, or otherwise manufacture a Montana driver’s license or a Montana identification card authorized by 61-12-501 or color facsimile thereof or create, manufacture, or possess an engraved plate or other such device for the printing of a Montana driver’s license or Montana identification card authorized by 61-12-501 or color facsimile thereof, except as authorized by the department.”
So, this prevents fraud by making me proove I am who I say I am, so that I’m not saying I am John Doe and you can send my bill to him? I think that’s what this is designed for.
If that is true, then I’d really hope I could opt not to use such fraud detection.
Or maybe this falls into the tug-of-war (or push-of-war) that dictates who pays for the mix-up when fraud occurs; people or the institutions.
But yes, I’d hope I could opt out…
So I was a part of that UC-Berkeley health center data theft (as a victim, not a perp). was trying to figure out what to do….I’m ready to wash my hands of any identify theft security.
[...] a recent incident in which she appears to have been personally involved. The post, located at philosecurity.org, describes the results of the FACTA and its Red Flag Rules on patient [...]
Hi Tom,
Excellent points, and thanks for the discussion.
I just wanted to clarify that I am not “upset that [I] was inconvenienced.” Showing an ID doesn’t take much time or effort. Rather, I feel that the Federal Trade Commission has overstepped it’s bounds by regulating the doctor’s office.
Medical privacy has become scarce in today’s world, where private insurers have access to medical records and information is traded and sold in third-party databases. As a person who values my privacy, I do not want doctors collecting a detailed medical profile on me, and then providing that to third parties. Pseudonymous or anonymous treatment should be an option, especially for individuals that pay their own way.
In our “free country” it seems inappropriate for health care organizations to require that persons be, essentially, registered with the government in order to receive medical treatment. Patients are also at greater risk of identity theft- medical and otherwise- the more identification information is spread around.
This ties in with your point about apparent compliance. Having seen the insides of many medical-related establishments, from hospitals to health insurance firms, I can safely say that few if any of these organizations are even close to being actually HIPAA compliant, regardless of whether they’ve passed a superficial audit.
Americans should have the right to PRIVATE medical treatment, which is not possible in an environment where hospitals are insecurely storing detailed medical records and providing access to third parties. Collecting and storing detailed information about patient identity is the first step in eroding privacy, and places all patients at greater risk of identity theft.
I just found out about this new law while at my chiropractors office today, they showed me the software and the letter from the Gov, including one signed by Obama.
It is more than just copying your ID, on the computer form that they use they also enter in everything about your Doc visit too. And it is sent off into cyberspace after they enter all the info.
Basically according to what the letter says from the Gov, our medical records have been reclassified from person and private information to “public” & “public domain” information.
As to what Steve said my Social Security card says right on the front of it “For Social Security and tax purposes – Not For Identification”. But yet I must show it as ID to get a job and other things.
The FTC Red Flag Rule does not mandate copying any photo ID. In fact, the World Privacy Forum’s 2006 ID theft Report, on which much of the FTC law was based, specifically notes that retaining copies of photo IDs may actually increase medical identity theft. However, SHOWING an ID will help the staff make sure that nobody has stolen YOUR identity.
Identity Theft is huge. The law intends to help slow it, IF it is correctly implemented. It is extraordinarily easy at this point to steal patient identifying information. 7,000,000 medical records were stolen in 2008. A stolen social security number sells for $1 on the srteet. Patient financial info sells for $50.
If doctors actually complied to the Reg Flag Rule, they might put enough security provisions in place to stop much of the theft, which is mainly committed by insiders – employees, family and friends.
If your identity was stolen and you weren’t a regular patient, you might not know for years that the theft occurred. ID thieves can use up your entire lifetime benefits without your knowledge. You don’t get them back either.
I would suggest that everyone get a copy of their medical records each year.
Unfortunately, where some real protection for patients could be achieved, most docs are brushing it off, like they did with HIPAA (HIPAA was lame, I agree) . This is different.
This stupid rule just hit home with us when we tried to make an appointment for our mother who is 91 years old and bedridden. Just to get her to Drs office required using a hoyer lift to get her in wheelchair and an ambulance to take her there. She never drove in her life and her photo ID expired in 2001. We didn’t think it was necessary to renew it. Now there is no way to get her to DMV to get it renewed. Insurance doesn’t pay for ambulance rides to DMV. We are going crazy trying to figure out who to even contact to solve this problem. Mind you this Dr. has treated her for over 15 years. By now they should be familiar with her identity.
I just found about this today when making appointments for my daughter in October. How many parents actually have photo id for small children? We happen to have a passport for her, but I’d be willing to bet that’s not the norm, nor do I wish to carry it around with me regularly so she can be seen at the doctor’s office.
I just had the same issue today with my endocrinologist’s office. They requested my driver’s license to scan it. I refuse (I had to help a former boyfriend with identity theft before, and it’s a royal pain), and told them I will let them scan it. They could look at it to verify it was me, but that was it. They first told me they would not be able to see me if I didn’t comply, and I told them I wanted the doctor to tell me that in person. That at least they should have informed me BEFORE I drove all the way from my house for nothing. She finally ended up seeing me, but told me that next time she would not be able to as it was a new rule that her boss had put in place. I also told them (half joking) that I would let them scan my license if I could make a copy of anyone’s in the office. After all, if they have a copy of my ID, I want a copy of their ID. Fair in my book isn’t it? My concern is that how sure can I be of their computer security system, do they have a firewall? Are their systems protected? Not to be condescending on anyone’s job, but does the doctor run a full background check on his staff before he hires them? I used to work for the mortgage industry, and my background was fully researched before that mortgage company hired me. If you are going to be around social security and highly sensitive private information, that should be the case. Is the Healthcare industry doing the same thing? How can they be requested to enforce such a new process and not change their hiring system as well? This is just mind boggling to me. Now I wonder if all doctor’s are going to ask me this each time I go, even the ones I have been a patient at forever… I need to do more research about this. Thank you very much for this posting. Now I can be more prepared.
Hello! I work as a receptionist in a Doctor’s office and am mortified by having to ask for ID. So much so that I am considering a transfer to a different position, or look for a new job altogether. What’s worse is that while we used to get ID at the first visit only, now with this new law everyone is wigging out and wanting cards copied at each visit. I am desperately trying to find documentation to bring to my boss that the rule does not specifically say that there has to be copy of Id card updated yearly in the chart. (which is how the manager has either interpreted it or chose to deal with it) Please help! And remember that the receptionist at the front counter is usually helpless and at the whim of zealous office managers. If you want to rant or complain please ask to speak to them.
Hi Karin,
Thanks for your input. The “Red Flags” Rule definitely does NOT require that IDs be copied or scanned at all. It is frequently implemented that way because it’s an easy way to appear compliant (without actually solving the underlying problems).
The Rule itself is actually fairly general. According to the FTC:
If you’re covered by the Rule, your program must:
1. Identify the kinds of red flags that are relevant to your practice;
2. Explain your process for detecting them;
3. Describe how you’ll respond to red flags to prevent and mitigate identity theft; and
4. Spell out how you’ll keep your program current.
That’s basically it. The specifics are determined by your organization.
There are certainly alternatives to checking ID. For example, patients are often asked to sign forms when they arrive at the doctor’s office. Signature checking is an effective means of verifying a person’s identity, which has worked for the banking industry for decades. Rather than regularly asking for an updated copy of the patient’s photo ID, office staff could simply check that the current signature matches the one already on file from previous visits. If not, that would be considered a red flag, and then staff could potentially ask for further verification (depending on the organization’s response policy).
You might want to check out the AMA’s formal objection to the Red Flag Rules here.
As described in World Privacy Forum’s 2008 report, “Patient identity proofing, particularly in some implementations, can expose patients to increased risk of medical and other forms of identity theft…Depending on the implementation, it can potentially increase the liability of a health care provider.
“When patients are, for example, asked for a drivers’ license when checking in to hospitals for surgery, the license itself may be copied or scanned and added into the actual patient file. This can give hospital insiders with criminal tendencies access to a treasure trove of photographic, biometric, and other information that may have been unavailable to them before. The result can be more identity theft (medical and otherwise).”
Hope that helps,
Sherri
i have been getting harassed at my pain medication doctors office and i believe that they are just asking for this from me to harass me even further. so, am i required by law to do this or not? can my doctor actually refuse to give me my pain meds because i will be refusing to give him my picture id?
our goverment and the medical providers have gone way over board in the last several years and i know this simply because of how i have been targeted and dropped at all of my doctors repeatedly until they now have me seeing this doctor possibly not even by my own choice as this doctor is the only one with in my area who will even take and perscribe pain meds for this condition of mine that i have been on pain meds for the last 4 years for.
is this something that all pain med patients have to worry about beyond the pressures of finding a doctor? what kind of terror watch list [with photo] will i be providing to these doctors that i trust no more than i trust our goverment?
safty in number is what i say! everyone should just refuse to comply and they will be unable to impliment this stupid and evasive policy that is a violation of everyones rights to be free from excessive goverment intrussion.
The doctors offices are just as confused as most of these patients sound on your site. We are getting conflicting information. One government agency tells us we should make copies of driver’s licenses or other photo ID and another agency tells us not to. We are not sure what to do. I can assure you that most doctor’s office have anti virus and theft software on their computers so it would be difficult to hack a providers computer system but as we all know not impossible.
So if we go to the hopsital, can we refuse to give them a ID?
I have a friend who took her kid to the Dr and he scanned his hand and took a picture! OMG I almost died when she said she allowed them to do that.
Hi guys,
I work in the medical field. We are not required to scan licenses into our computer systems. In fact there is no law that says we have to. But we do have to comply with the regulation, which means checking a photo ID at time of visit to make sure you are the patient, or taking your picuture so we always have it on file and can identify you in the future. If your docotor says it is the law for them to scan your drivers license, it is not. It may be their policy which they can do. I recomend if you find that this is their policy leaving that practice and finding another doctor who does not have this type of policy.
Hi
I just went to the Doctor yesterday with my Mother and we both we ask to show our driver’s license and they did scan it and jokingly the receptionist stated “just like going to the bar, you’ll get ask for your ID and now we will know what favorite drinking places you go to and how much you drink” – so be careful.
I did not appreciate her sense of humor.
Hi, I am employed by the government as an Agent in one the Government Agencies (that I won’t disclose here) I was told by my supervisor NOT to ALLOW ANYONE to copy my Drivers License or Federal Government Picture ID for ANY purpose other then entrance into government building or National Airport.
I do NOT allow Dr’s offices to bully me or intimidate me unless they can provide PROOF in writing that they need this information. Then I will submit it to the Inspection office who will then contact them regarding the need for such information.
I go to Doctors offices, Dentist offices and hospitals regularly with the wife & the kids. Not one employye has ever challenged me when I refuse to give them a copy of my ID for the purpose of copying it. They may peruse it , they can take a picture of me when I am in their offices. They can photo copy my Insurance card . But thats where the line is drawn. I have NEVER been refused service or refused treatment by ANY office when I have adhered to this guideline.
If you want to guarantee your privacy and your safety; you had better learn when to draw the line also.
Enforcement of the Red Flag Rule has been delayed by the FTC till November 1, 2009 per their July 29 press release.
(http://www.ftc.gov/opa.209/07/redflag.shtm).
Doctors are NOT creditors under certain circumstances
“On the other hand, health care providers who require payment before or at the time of service are not creditors under the Red Flags Rule. In addition, if you accept only direct payment from Medicaid or similar programs where the patient has no responsibility for the fees, you are not a creditor. Simply accepting credit cards as a form of payment at the time of service does not make you a creditor under the Rule.” (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/articles/art11.shtm)
The following is a direct quote from the FTC’s FAQ on the RFR: (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/microsites/redflagsrule/faqs.shtm#D)
# Does the Rule require that I have specific practices or procedures in my Program – like identifying a particular red flag or reporting suspected identity theft?
The Rule doesn’t require any specific practice or procedures. It gives you the flexibility to tailor your Program to the nature of your business and the risks it faces. The FTC will assess compliance based on the reasonableness of a company’s policies and procedures. Businesses with a high risk for identity theft may need more robust procedures – like using other information sources to confirm the identity of new customers or incorporating fraud detection software. Groups with a low risk for identity theft may have a more streamlined Program – for example, simply having a plan for how they’ll respond if they find out there has been an incident of identity theft involving their business…
# Does the Red Flags Rule require me to check photo IDs of my customers? If I check photo IDs, should I keep copies?
The Rule doesn’t specifically require you to check customers’ photo IDs. Of course, for some businesses, checking photo IDs is one way to verify that customers are who they claim to be. But if you decide to ask for a photo ID, keeping a copy often is unnecessary and can raise privacy and data security concerns, especially if you’re collecting other personal information like date of birth, address, or Social Security number.
Here is my take on this. The government is in the process of digitalizing your medical records. Seeing your picture ID and “having to scan it” is two different things. The BS behind preventing fraud is exactly that. If they were “preventing fraud” seeing my ID should suffice. Scanning a copy of my picture ID or taking a picture of me in the doctor’s office is my right, not law. I will not allow a photo to be placed in my medical file so they can “match me up.” If they won’t see me then I’ll go someplace else. I have argued this numerous times. It is not a law per say but you are told that at the doctor’s office for 1) they really don’t know why or 2) are told its law for the sake of arguement. DO NOT LET THEM PUT A PICTURE IN YOUR FILE…I have still been seen and there still isn’t a picture in any of my files.
I hope you require a copy of the doctor’s ID before you let them treat you. After all, you need to know it’s a real doctor treating you, and not some random person who has stolen the doctor’s identity, and could prescribe inappropriate treatment.
My driving licence doesn’t even have my photo on it. In this state, at age 60, you can renew the licence by mail, and in the place where the picture normally goes, is written “valid without photo”. I have never (yet) been denied treatment.
This whole thing makes about as much sense as carding senior citizens before selling them beer or cigarettes. They have started doing that, too. I am 67, and have been carded at the store for beer more times in the past 5 years than I ever was when I was young enough to be mistaken for someone under age.
Has anyone ever had their picture taken at the doctor’s office? I had that happen to me today. They said it’s to protect my identity. I thought it was kind of weird, but since they know everything else about me and it’s a digital camera picture I thought it was okay. Now I’m having second thoughts.
Fight fire with fire – insist on seeing the ID of everyone at the doctor’s office who deals with you.
How do you know that the receptionist / nurse / administrator who is looking at your file on screen or on paper is really who they say and not some weird serial killer who may change your records so you get given the wrong drugs?
Ask your doctor for some photo ID and a certified copy of his/her practising certficate or medical board membership (or whatever is appropriate to your jurisidcition, in the UK this would be membership of the GMC).
Surprise them further by getting your laptop and portable scanner out of your backpack – just to make a copy “for your records”.
How about producing some joke ID, such as membership of the KKK (photo taken with hood on, of course) or the National Hairdressers Association (picture of top of head), or International Clown Institute (in full makeup and wig).
Maybe you’re a member of the Porn Actor’s Guild, with appropriate photo to match. Offer to prove it really is you…
Love this! So informative. Thanks!!
The hospital network my physician is in likes hand scans now. They said it was optional to have my hand scanned into the system. I opted no. No one gets biometrics from me.
I went to Target to buy a 6 pack the other day. They asked for ID. I held out my wallet. The clerk said that I needed to take the ID out because she had to scan it. I said “Whoa!” She said she was required to scan the ID. I refused to buy the beer (I’m waaaayyyyy beyond 21). GROSS invasion of privacy. Ditto at the Doctor’s office. Now, if its only Target or one doctor that wants to scan ID I can go to Wal Mart or another doctor, etc. But what if they ALL want to scan ID? I’m shut out from having a beer. Or getting medical services. Or (as the Feds have threatened if the states don’t adopt “Real ID”) even going to the post office! Where does it end?
I have worked at physician over 22 years. I really like working in this field. At first I was thinking that all honest patients would not mind showing proper id, only people with something to hide would mind. I get all the returned mail for bad address, no such person, reports that someone stole their wallet 2 months ago and now the real person is getting explanation of benefits from their insurance saying they had an operation with us for 15K and insurance won’t pay. Do you just do surgery on patients without knowing who they are?? Guess what, this definitely happens. When I worked in georgetown students would go out to party and drink and get their wallet stolen. Never report it to the insurance carrier and bills and bills are racked up under their name with their insurance. Those diagnosis never leave your “insurance file” and all the insurance carriers “share” the information. I am the who gets letters from insurance carriers asking me to prove that we have the patient’s signature on file, photo id of the member on the insurance card, and documentation that the person who presented the insurance card had the right to do so. The only way I can was to present copy of patient registration form with a copy of photo id where the signatures should match what they have on file. If I am not allowed to have that, how can I get the claims paid?? Patients want services NOW, Surgery NOW before my insurance terminates or my new deductible kicks in…. but the doctors offices are left months later trying to get the claims paid by your insurance carriers who have a lot of rules (so they don’t have to pay the doctors and hospitals). All the practices I have worked at have good security for the computer data, but for paper files and for the papers before they get scanned they is no real security, they sent in a bin/box until the “girl” at the desk gets to it. Then they go in a large bin for shredding by a shredding company. Alot of dr’s offices have a cash stealing problem so they don’t like to accept cash payments. If you cant trust the staff with your cash how can you with your ID.. Many drs’ offices have high turnover and they don’t like to change the locks or the systems in the office, they also don’t usually prosecute people caught stealing in their office, so theft can be a problem at physicians offices and hospitals by staff. So having read all these entries, now I have a big change of heart on this matter. I think in the future, I will just request to look at the photo id, jot down a notation that I viewed the id and it was found to appear true and the data matched the insurance card information etc.. I would not ask to scan it. If the insurance wont pay a patients claim because they can’t verify it is the right patient we will just bill the patient for the full thing and then the real patient can deal with it later or the doctor will write it off. I can definitely see the points on the other side of the desk after reading all these interesting points. Thank you for the wake up call.
This is all to put our medical information into the MIB (no not the movie with Will Smith), Medical Information Bureau. This is basically a “credit report” of your medical history. Insurance companies and the like use it to verify your application for services to determine if your a risk. Now with the Red Flag act, its just one more nail in the coffin so to say. Now they will have your picture, drivers license data and they can track you where ever you go. I went to a new doctor today and they wanted picture id, I refused my drivers license but offered a copy of my passport. They refused service. I’m contacting the medical board, attorney general and the FTC.
I think this is all ridiculous. Before you know it we will have to show I.d. To buy groceries, gas or any other basis necessities. Also what about the homeless who can’t even afford a place to lay their head. Do you really think they can afford to go to the bmv to get an I’d made.
My doctor’s office has a copy of my valid drivers’ license (photo id) and insurance card. However, at my last visit I noticed webcam cameras pointing into the waiting room and at the check-out hall. The photos are to be taken of every patient and stored as a .jpg on a system the office will not confirm is secure or not. The receptionist explained one of the doctors created a new mandate that all patients not only succumb to their photos being taken but that the photos must be so close-up the patient’s face alone fills the screen. Is this practice legal? My doctor already has a valid photo id. The local senator’s office called the doctor repeatedly to find out what was going on and the doctor said there was no way he would take that call simply because “he didn’t want to.” Thank you for your thoughts!
i agree with everyone I called my children s pediatricians office today to make an appointment and was told to bring ID for there visit..
I first new about this last year when I went for an outpatient procedure they took my license and scanned it. Then I went to my ob/Gyn office who has known me for 16 years and copied my license. After that I said I will not go back to any doctor Until I find out the law. I am an American and my uncle died and served this country for our freedom and I if the doctor wants proof the OWNERSHIP should be on the office. We are heading for a National ID card which means every thing we purchase we will have to show this identification. This should terrify everyone. I will continue to refuse to give my license and hope everyone does the same.
7-10-10 Today, on a trip out of town (by bus), my wife just went to a clinic in Renton, Washington. She has had MRSA symptoms now for a couple of weeks. She called in and said she had cash. After arriving she was refused medical treatment for being unable to show a govt. issued photo ID. She had plenty of cash for the doctor visit. She was not asking for billing, credit, or insurance coverage. She had CASH!
Valley Medical Clinic refused to diagnose or give her medical treatment. She called Overlake Medical Center and was told the same thing on the phone, no ID = no treatment even with cash-in-hand! My wife was polite, was born in this country, has always paid her bills and taxes, (heck, she’s even a nurse!). She was emotionally destroyed by this event… now we will see if she lives long enough to get back home on the bus and get treatment closer to home.
Think about it, if a person cannot get treated without ID, is this not an evil system that demands your very soul? Obamacare will be far worse!
Just left a clinic in Atlanta. Gave them all my address info, but refused to fill out SSN or give them my drivers licence for photocopying. Office manager called a doctor out of treating patients to talk to me in front of the whole waiting room. I told him I had cash, would pay up front, and needed medical attention. He said he would not allow his office to treat me without a valid government photo ID on file. He said it was office policy and that’s that. I said I couldn’t beleive that the doctor himself has time to waste to discuss such trivial issues that he should be spending doing his job helping patients. He walked away from me washing his hands of me. I walked out.
Serious misplacement of duty here.
This seems to be completely arbitrary. I have visited other doctors, even had – and paid for – surgery without giving them anything at all.
In many states (CA for example) photocopying and storing a patron’s state-issued ID is illegal.
My suggestion: Look up your local state laws and if you find something that looks applicable to you, then print it out and carry it around with you.
Folks:
I’m a lawyer and have taken Bar Association continuing education on this very topic. The Red Flag Rules DO NOT require medical offices to check IDs or copy driver’s licenses. What they require is for certain actions to be taken in the event that the office sees a “red flag” that some patient is trying to commit a fraud of some kind.
Do not let any receptionist or supervisor tell you the “law” requires this kind of data collection.
I myself have some providers that have requested ID for years — so it has nothing whatsoever to do with the Red Flag rules. What I do, when someone asks for a photocopy of my license, is let them do it, but take a pen and obliterate the license #. I’d advise everyone to refuse a scan.
BTW, there is no reason to give a health care provider your SS#. Often your insurance ID is your SS#, but you can change that by requesting a different ID # (and a new insurance card) from your insurer.
The outcome of the”Red Flag Rule” just recently stated that doctors are not creditors and therefore are not part of the policy. This came after many doctors fought to not have to do this. It’s hard enough to go to a doctor and find one you trust when you feel as though they don’t trust you right from the start.
Protect your rights. Don’t give in with out a fight. I tried to give a doctor’s office a copy of my license w/the id number blacked out and they refused it. Treatment was still provided, however, but not w/out a nasty attitude from the receptionist.
I went to the doctor’s office in washington for trouble breathing and pain in my chest and they refused to see me unless they could copy my drivers license. I stuck to my guns like noted above but they still refused to see me or give a copy of their policy even though I could have been having a heart attack right in front of them. They shuffled me from person to person and I finally left because I was in pain and my family was worried. The next doctor’s office was friendlier but said the same thing and I needed to be seen.
We need some recommendations other than refuse to give them your i.d. and walk out of the office or get copies of their i.d.’s. That’s not happening. Especially when you are suffering (sick) and not upper class, the healthcare industry has all the power. They do whatever they want and we have no recourse if we need to be seen.
I asked “you are refusing to see me unless I let you keep a copy of my photo i.d.?” They said “no, you are refusing to be comply with our policies in order to be seen.”
This makes me reconsider the worthiness of class action lawsuits and the manner with which to proceed these days in regards to protection of my privacy.
I no longer allow my drivers license to be photocopied either. I say, “I’ll show it to you as proof of identity but you can’t scan or copy it.” I’ve been to different hospitals and doctors offices, but only one doctor refused to see me because I wouldn’t let them scan my ID. They usually look puzzled, but if you’re insistent, they back down.
When I’ve asked why they need that photocopy of my drivers license, the answers are usually just nonsensical. “It’s our policy, we have to have it in our file, etc.” They don’t even know why they’re doing it! And seriously, I’m just fed up with all the information everybody wants from you. You can’t even go to check out in a store without them asking for your email address, phone number, or zip code. I usually just answer “no”.
I sort of understand they want ID if you pay with insurance, to make sure someone else is not “stealing” another’s to use the insurance.
What puzzles me is the answer I do not get, when I ask why do they need my ID if I am PAYING CASH!!!
They do not know, they have no knowledge of the Red Flag Rule.
I have never been refused service because I am paying right there and they do not have trouble with insurance, but they always say: IT IS OUR POLICY. Where is that written? Why it is not posted out there clearly for all to see?
The Ref Flag Rule was amended, saying doctors/dentists ARE NOT CREDIT providers if they require payment when services are rendered (diffirent from labs/xrays etc where they bill days AFTER services are provided).
I get weird stares when I say I do not have a license, but I am not letting anyone copy that, unless they show me a rule, law or policy.
Good luck you all.
People have no problem showing their ID when they use their credit card, Why? because you are glad that person asked to make sure that you are the person that really owns that card. Also people get mad if you have C ID on the back of the card and the clerk dont ask to see your ID BUT you are mad because Physician office ask for your ID. That make no sense. I work at a doctors office and if you know how often Idenity theft happen you would be glad to show your ID. Physician with a great EMR system, it help the nurses make sure she is talking with the correct patient. Also, With our office once your ID has been scanned in the system you are no longer required to show ID.
There are multiple reason for giving a legal id. One due to fraud with insurance companys, must be sure you are the same person on the insurance card. Medical staff also have responsibilities to report such things as abuse, rape, std (hiv) any disease that could be tranmitted to others, has to be reported to the health dept. With that said an there must be an ID on file so that you are the person who is being treated for any of those mentioned above. I work for a clinic, and i have witnessed one person give her relative’s name when she was coming in with a personal problem. Unfortunately those honest people have to be group in with dishonest people.
I am an Office manager for a private practice. I can tell you that the laws change so fast, back and fourth it is very hard for us to keep up. The government sends out a new law gives us the date that it is to go in effect. We abide by the law, and then we get a paper through snail mail, which states that they are putting a hold on until? If you do not have an office big enough to warrent you having one person dedicated to just the changing laws you miss out!
When I read on here about how upset everyone is with the Doctor’s , it makes me mad. Trust me we do not want to ask people for some of the information we are requested to. But we do because that is what we are told! If you want to be mad, get mad with Washington and stop giving our staff such a hard time, we do not make rules we have to follow the millions given to us.
I can tell you, it is our rule in our practice that we take a copy of your DL or other valid picture ID. If a patient does not comply we refer them to different doctors. We have fire walls and pay a lot of money for security for all of our computers. We do a complete backround check on all of our employees. We take the extra steps to make sure that our patients are as secure as they can be. No system is without flaws. But we spend a lot of extra money to ensure your privacy.
So next time you are standing at a doctor’s window checking in, just remember don’t yell at the poor girl checking you in, She gets paid to do what the practice tells her to do. You can get mad at Washington and make them change the ways they make us do business. Or you can simply go to another Doctor’s office.
I have a question I’m homeless and they won’t let me get a state ID unless I have a residential address, being marginally housed i don’t pay bills at my address or technically live here (currently my home is a walk-in closet I rent for cash under the table) for this month. So if they won’t issue and ID how do I show and ID to do anything my only ID now is expired?
Seems to me just another thing for other people and not me like banking and having the right to vote or getting a library card – now somthing like going to the ER is now out of bounds unless I’m so sick they must take me and admit me.
I work as a sidewalk performer, have never been in trouble with the law and my only crime is being poor so is now being poor a crime?
We have homeless patients, and they have an ID. You can give the address of a shelter, friend ect…..Stop trying to make it difficult. I would think that in this day and age, that people would like to make sure that you are whom you day you are. If someone stole your insurance card and now using it to go to the Doctor , and now you don’t have to use an ID to prove it is you, And say they have a drug problem that they are being treated for. Maybe has HIV or something like that. You go to get a job and they do some type of a chek and they find out that you are a user, or a high risk. Yeah now how are you going to prove that was not you??????
You have to see it from both sides. I myself want to make sure that I am protected and that Noboby is able to use my name and insurance card.
First there has to be a written law that states a physician can take a copy of your license and they must show it to the patient. This all came about because of the Red Flag policy which exempted doctors offices and stated they are not creditors like banking institutions. However the offices are still asking for copies of licenses without legal rights. We live in a free country and thank God we are not required to walk around with our “papers” to prove our identity. Hopefully never a National ID card. Finally, I having been with all of my physicians for 15 plus years I feel if they don’t know at this point who I am as there patient and need proof of identity this is a unfortunate. The biggest fraud usually occurs inside the medical professional and The physician should take ownership over this by getting a picture of the patient when they come in and keep on file.
The person mentioning we should be happy when we are asked to show our license when using our credit card. The fact is Credit companies state you do not have to show your license when you use your credit card. I called on this just this year and was told a merchant can not ask for your license
I work at a large hospital in the emergency room as an admissions and insurance specialist (NOT a receptionist). I am also a nice, intelligent human that worries about the same things everyone else here is worried about. There are a few useful things I’d like to point out that I think a lot of you will find helpful:
1) People keep bringing up state laws about getting copies of IDs (someone brought up California). This doesn’t matter. The US Constitution makes it clear that federal laws ALWAYS trumps state laws, so a federal law requiring something is king. With that being said, I work with HIPAA and CMS compliance and have never heard anything about requiring an ID. It may be different in a doctors office, but I’m rarely asked to show one.
2) There is a law known as EMTALA that basically says if you are having a medical emergency or are in labor, hospitals are legally required to treat you (or stabilize you and transport you to another hospital). We have illegal immigrants come in all the time (for totally non-emergency reasons). They give us false information and no photo ID and we are still, by FEDERAL law, required to treat them. Homeless people come in all the time and we are required to treat them, even if they don’t have an ID. So if you’re having an emergency (or if you want to be a jerk and go to the emergency room because you don’t want to schedule an appt with a doctor) EMTALA requires that the hospital treat you no matter what- you don’t have to provide an ID, social security number, or even sign our consents. Again, I don’t know the rules to regular doctor appts but if you’re having an emergency, you WILL be able to get treatment.
3) One last thing: the staff/admissions reps/ receptionists at the front desk have no control over the rules their supervisors and bosses give them. They are not working for the government, trying to cause your death, or wanting to inconvenience you. Granted, some are complete jerks, but if you do not want them to scan your ID, just explain it politely, for goodness sakes! You don’t have to be rude and demand to scan their ID and speak with their supervisor and throw a fit. Simply explain that you’re worried about privacy but you’d be happy to show it to them to prove you are actually you. If they’re rude, yes, speak to their supervisor, but when you’re asked for an ID, don’t automatically throw a fit and demand the person explain the law requiring them to get it. Most of them are just doing what they’re told and if they don’t ask, they’ll likely be fired. Be polite, guys, it goes a long way. Let’s say you work at a bank or McDonalds- if I have a problem with an interest rate or want to know why mcdonalds markets unhealthy food to children, do you want someone coming up to the window demanding you speak for your company? Heck no! You hate interest rates and calories as much as the next guy, but you’re trying to earn a living. Just keep that in mind, please!
Today I heard a news report that the Fed AG is suing States that require voters to show picture IDs in order to vote. I don’t understand why it’s okay to require IDs for medical care,(and in that case they also make a copy of it), but they don’t think that it’s important to protect against voter fraud. Isn’t that inconsistent? Any thoughts?
Isn’t it funny that we don’t have to show ID to vote? What’s up with that? We should be showing identity when we vote. Of course, only law abiding citizens have to show identity. I don’t mind showing it at the doctor’s office , but to photocopy it is ridiculous.
Due to recent heath problems i have had to have Diagnostic Testing performed. No matter where I am constantly met with demands for my Driving License. The institutions are; Physicians, Diagnostic labs, & Radiologic Imaging sites .
I am not underscoring the use of the word ‘Demand”. office workers (Supervisors included) make verbal threats to forbid me from seeing the physician or refuse to allow the testing performed. I have all too often confronted the Physicians, Laboratory Owner, et al. All claim it is the FTC “Law”
Copies of my operators license are scanned or copied every time, whether I have been there before.
This is unreasonable.
When a physician’s office demanded to scan my driver’s license or I would not be treated I left the practice. However, I went home and did a google on the IDIOT DOCTOR and sent him a lengthy email giving him the full name of his wife, location of his children’s school, email for his wife on the PTA, name of brothers, sisters, parents, addresses, taxes paid last year on his personal residence, etc. Within 5 minutes, I had a treasure trove of personal data. Just wanted to give him a taste of his own medicine. For doctors these idiots are stupid. They just do what is easy and basically this country will be forced to shut down because of the stupidity of physicians and our legislators.
By the way , I lie to them about my SS#. I just make up a new one each time because no one has a right to use my personal information or collect it. As for personal information, I just make it up. Parents are unknown, and no siblings.
I had a major financial concern (Merrill Lynch) actually capture a signature on one document and put it on other documents that had never been executed by me or my husband. Be careful of what you sign and leaving your “normal” signature as well.
Wow this is interesting. A couple of months ago my chiropracter asked for my ss#. I was a little stupmed but went ahead and gave it. Yesterday I went to the optomotrist and not only did they take a picture, the copied my drivers liscense too! I questioned her about it and she said that as of January 1, all medical records are going electonic and they have to have that info. Stupid me didn’t question any further but when I got home and discussed it with hubby, he was very concerned about it. Now I’m pretty upset and am wondering if anyone knows how I can get my info off their records. I’m a pretty bold person and have no problem going back in but I want to make sure that it’s possible. Does anyone know this? Thanks for this information!